Curse

Ben-A-BoO · Oct 21, 2007, 10:11 AM // 10:11

This little Article on Game Amp helped me to decide which mod to prefer:
Fortitude + 30 HP vs. Armor + 5 Mods

And yeah Ensign is right ... DP sucks

Cheers,
Timebandit

kooomar · Oct 21, 2007, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword

30 hp always
no arguement

Mmmmm, I have one, like "+30 always is silly"
+30 is the norm and works best most of the time, but there are DEFINATELY times for +5 to be better. In GvG/HA I normally run the HP, but hero battles (i run monk) I run the +5 armor or +7 vs physical, depending on a quick test of what kind of daggers the sin is using. The +5 is MUCH better where constant pressure is being applied to you.

To sum it up, and hopefully justify swapping, if your increased armor causes you to lose less health that adds up to more than 30, in a fairly short amount of time, you made a wise choice.

dont feel no pain · Oct 21, 2007, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Farming: Armor.

PvP: Health.

Normal Pve: Either.

Neither is right for pvp because of the variations of situations you can get into.

Diddy bow · Oct 21, 2007, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Swapping is pretty good but in pvp where spikes are so common swapping will be the least of your troubles so id go with a +30 myself.

Viruzzz · Oct 21, 2007, 11:56 AM // 11:56

that article on gameamp isn't really complete, there's much more than total hp to it.

the longer a battle takes (the more healing required) the better +armor is.
the 30 extra health only works once, your monk still has to heal that 30hp back, while with an armor mod, the monk spends more energy to heal the damage thats being done to you. it might not seem like a lot, but it adds up.

in a spike situation(pvp), +hp is most likely the best option for a consistent weapon (if you don't have both available to swap)

in a pressure situation you are likely to lose your health bar more than once, so armor would be the best choice, as long as the damage done isn't purely degen or armor-ignoring

a lot of things change this though, for example physical skills, they add an extra bunch of armor ignoring damage, and +armor would only decrease the amount that came from the base attack.

at the end of the day, you can never go completely wrong with +30 HP.
you should always stack as much as you can though, if you add another 100 hp you're much better off against spikes. and if you add +15 armor your pressure defense is considerably better.

Onarik Amrak · Oct 21, 2007, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Get both, although +5 is much cheaper to get.

Antheus · Oct 21, 2007, 12:50 PM // 12:50

In wurms, +AL is better, especially double +5, or +5 and shield.

On casters, I prefer +30, since +AL is hard to get, without sacrificing much of the build.

+AL is also much easier to obtain through skills, than +hp, at least in general builds (WY, SyG, and similar).

Unlucky · Oct 21, 2007, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Personally I've always run the +30 health mod, never really gave the +5 armour any thought as I've generally had something that's been guarding my arse of a self heal which compensates for the small amount of extra damage I'd take without the +5 armour mod.

Spazzer · Oct 21, 2007, 01:24 PM // 13:24

If you get death penalty while you've got that +5 AL mod on you, you're going to regret not taking the +30 HP.

Aera Lure · Oct 21, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Health mod > armor mod in most cases.

Dante the Warlord · Oct 21, 2007, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Yea health mod is better than armor mods in most cases since most spellcasters stay far enough back to avoid damage from melee fighters. Melee fighters don't need it either since they usually have high enough AL anyways and it makes little sense since AL has diminishing effects at high levels.

Plus armor can be avoided with armor penetration attacks. HP on the other hand will help with degen, giving you an extra 2 seconds to whip out a spell to gain back health.

M1h4iL · Oct 21, 2007, 02:55 PM // 14:55

This has been debated so many times. It depends really and having both is ideal. Running around with +5ar throughout a round will reduce a lot of damage in the end while the 30hp mod will just sit there. On the other side, if you don't have much hp, due to damage or dp, or your against a spike group then sure the 30hp is better.

Gigashadow · Oct 21, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

+5 armor is generally better the less armor you have to start with. On a caster with 60AL, +5 armor is worth 8.3% damage reduction. On a warrior with 96 base AL, +5 AL is worth around 4.5% damage reduction. The more armor you have, the less it does.

True, your actual mitigation % number goes up more slowly the more armor you have, but in terms of longevity they both increase it by the same factor. For example, regardless of what your armor value is, if you add +40 to it, you take half the amount of damage you were taking before, so you live twice as long. Adding +5 works the same way, the result is just smaller.

Edit to add some numbers:

Let's say with ar60, it took 1000 hp worth of damage to kill you (this includes your base hp and the amount of healing that monks have available to dish out)
Adding +5ar, making ar65, it would take 1090 damage to kill you (1000 / .917)

For a warrior with around ar95, it would take 1834 damage to kill him (1000 / .545)
Adding +5ar, making ar100, it would take 2000 damage to kill him (1000 / .500)

The percentage increase in survivability is the same in both cases (an additional 9%). The warrior has gained an effective 166 life points worth of damage mitigation, while the 60ar caster has gained 90.

Gigashadow · Oct 21, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

In wurms, +AL is better, especially double +5, or +5 and shield.

On casters, I prefer +30, since +AL is hard to get, without sacrificing much of the build.

+AL is also much easier to obtain through skills, than +hp, at least in general builds (WY, SyG, and similar).

They aren't quite interchangeable though; the problem with +AR through skills is that it is capped at +24. So all it takes someone bringing a Watch Yourself! or similar type of skill, and you've probably already hit the cap.

Armor that comes from your weapon/offhand and runes does not count towards that cap.

That said I generally prefer +30hp, because when I take a few deaths, it's easier to get my henchmen out of the hole if they don't die in one hit. My minion master uses dark bond, which is an alternate form of mitigation, although my N/Rt healer does use Protective Was Kaolai + Herald's Insignia (+10ar while holding an item).

Omniclasm · Oct 21, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

The way I look at it is this....if I have 400 health, and am taking 40 damage a hit, I am easier to heal than if I had 800 health taking 80 damage a hit. So, my opinion is that armor is always better.

BohemianKeith · Oct 21, 2007, 07:55 PM // 19:55

This is like the 3 millionth time this has been brought up. I suggest the OP does some searching because i am certain you'll find alot of comparisons on the web. But personally i always take the 30hp, like someone said earlier armor isn't always the most usefull but health is.

SotiCoto · Oct 21, 2007, 08:19 PM // 20:19

+7 Elemental Armor.

The rest can go fvck themselves.
If it does physical damage, I can block it. Health I can get back easily. The nukers are the real nasty ones.

Antheus · Oct 21, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

+7 Elemental Armor.

The rest can go fvck themselves.
If it does physical damage, I can block it. Health I can get back easily. The nukers are the real nasty ones.

Go go prot spirit.

It's mesmers that are the nasty ones.

Zeek Aran · Oct 21, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Go go prot spirit.

It's mesmers that are the nasty ones.

Because prot can be on every character and makes armor useless?

Lagg · Oct 21, 2007, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Health and full Survivor.